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Podcast: Challenging the Stupidity Stereotype in Mental Illness

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Podcast: Challenging the Stupidity Stereotype in Mental Illness

March 05, 2024

Can people with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia be intelligent, or are they dumb? Tune in as Gabe and Michelle navigate the intersections of intelligence, creativity, and mental health, challenging the stereotypes that people with mental illness are somehow less than other people. Our hosts also address the concepts of genius and the enigmatic “spark of madness.”

But that’s not all – buckle up for a rollercoaster of tangents, including a deep dive into Mayim Bialik’s role as a host on Jeopardy and the surprising misrepresentation of Albert Einstein as a quirky genius, possibly influenced by perceptions of mental illness.

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About the Hosts of A Bipolar, A Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

gabe howardGabe Howard is a professional speaker, writer, and activist living with bipolar and anxiety disorders. Diagnosed in 2003, he has made it his mission to put a human face on mental illness.

He’s the author of Mental Illness is an Asshole and Other Observations and a popular podcast host. Learn more at gabehoward.com.

michelle hammerMichelle Hammer is a mental health advocate and the founder of the mental health clothing and lifestyle brand Schizophrenic.NYC. She is known for her efforts to raise awareness and reduce the stigma surrounding mental health issues, particularly schizophrenia. She is an NYC native featured in the WebMD documentary Voices, which was nominated for a Tribeca X Award at the Tribeca Film Festival. She has also been featured in media outlets such as ABC, NBC, and CBS. You can find Michelle’s newest Home and Living line at Home.Schizophrenic.NYC where she brings her artwork into practical home essentials.

Transcript for A Bipolar, A Schizophrenic, And A Podcast: Challenging the Stupidity Stereotype in Mental Illness

Producer’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer-generated and therefore may contain inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thank you. 


Announcer: So, what did the bipolar say to the schizophrenic? You’re in the right place to find out. . .   


Gabe: Welcome to the show, everyone. My name is Gabe and I’m bipolar.


Michelle: And I’m Michelle Hammer and I have schizophrenia.


Gabe: You have. You sound so excited to be recording today. I can always


Michelle: Okay.


Gabe: Tell when you didn’t sleep before we record episodes.


Michelle: Okay, okay, I’ll start it again. We’ll start again.


Gabe: No no no no, we’re leaving this one in. You’re stuck with it.


Michelle: Okay, okay.


Gabe: I want the people to know what I have to work with. See, you always come off so great on the show because we cut all of your mistakes because you’re like, all right, I’ll do it again because I catch it. You don’t do this for me.


Michelle: All right, so then all we have to tell people what they’re listening to then, Gabe. We’re you’re listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. So you forgot that part of the intro.


Gabe: You don’t think they know? They just they just hit play on a random thing on the internet.


Michelle: They should know because not everybody just knows. Gabe.


Gabe: How do they not know?


Michelle: You think I’m stupid, Gabe.


Gabe: First off, they selected


Michelle: You think I’m dumb?


Gabe: It on their player. Nope. They selected it on their player two. By this point in the show, they’ve already gone through the little package. It’s like na na na na na na na. You’re listening to a bipolar schizophrenic. So how do they not know?


Michelle: That’s not our music. Da na na na na na na na.


Gabe: I don’t know what our music is. I don’t listen to it. It’s edited in by production.


Michelle: That’s like another song. Like, I know that song.


Gabe: Listen, listen.


Michelle: That’s like another song.


Gabe: You know, you know what this is? You know, this is stereotypes. You think that people that listen to our podcast are stupid, don’t you?


Michelle: No no no no no no no no no no.


Gabe: No, I don’t know. You just said they didn’t even know what they were listening to.


Michelle: It’s called an intro, Gabe. It’s called an intro. People know what intros are. That’s what we do. We always rerecord our intros all the time. What are you talking about?


Gabe: I don’t even know what I’m talking about, Michelle. But I do know what we’re talking about, what we’re supposed to be talking about, and that is, do you get. And I’m asking you honestly, maybe you have not experienced this, but I have were people. When they hear that I have bipolar disorder, they automatically assume that I’m unintelligent.


Michelle: I get a lot of times, a lot of times they’re like, oh, well, you’re doing so well.


Gabe: But is that.


Michelle: You know, it’s because they have such low expectations.


Gabe: Uh, the I get, I get so much Michelle I, I I’m, I’m getting ready to I’m getting ready to burst. I’m getting ready to burst. People automatically assume things about me just because of the bipolar diagnosis. And one of them is that everything I have is because of my wife.


Michelle: Yeah yeah yeah. Or you know, it’s also it’s also it’s you ever get the question like you know, so where do you live. Do you live with family. You know, do you live with your parents. Oh no, no, I live in uh I live in Queens.


Gabe: It’s just automatically assumed. Not that there’s anything wrong with living with your parents, it’s just that it comes right? Like, why doesn’t it go like this? Oh, you have schizophrenia. Oh, do you own your own home? Like, why is it always the


Michelle: Yeah.


Gabe: Negative thing? And not that it’s I, I’m really trying hard Michelle not to say that it’s negative to live with your parents, but it’s just, I don’t know, it just it hits a certain way, doesn’t it, when people think the only reason you exist in society is because of someone else.


Michelle: Yeah, yeah.


Gabe: Just out of curiosity, Michelle do you live with your parents? I just always kind of assumed you did.


Michelle: I don’t live with my parents, I. I lived with them for many years, as children do. But then when I had the option to leave, I got the hell out of there.


Gabe: I do want to make sure that we circle back for anyone who does live at home. We’re not saying that it’s a bad thing, right? I’m not. I’m not. You know, I know this sounds like, you know, doth


Michelle: Yeah, yeah.


Gabe: Doth protest too much, right? But we’re not insulting people because of where they live. We’re insulting the people who automatically assume that we can’t make it on our own because we have schizophrenia. There’s so many reasons that people can’t make it on their own. I mean, one of them is the economy, the 7% mortgage rate, the fact that property values have tripled like four times over the last, I don’t know, ten years, like those are reasons. But it’s not because of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia or serious and persistent mental illness. There could be all kinds of reasons. And it’s just the this, this general stereotype that every single person managing a serious and persistent mental illness must live at home. I, I think it hurts me. It hurts me.


Michelle: It’s it. It’s like your infant. I always say this. Or infantile infantilized infantilized all the time. One lady at my pop-up shop was a therapist. She. I explained to her, like, you know what? I’m what I sell how I schizophrenia. And she just just just goes. I like to see schizophrenics doing well. And I was just like, is that a compliment? Is it a backhanded compliment? Is it an insult? Like, I don’t know how to take this. I know you meant it in a good way, but I can only understand that. That you always see schizophrenic people doing poorly. So the fact that I’m doing well, you have to, like, say this to me because I should be doing bad, you know what I’m saying?


Gabe: I do know what you’re saying. And you can’t fight back. That’s the hardest part for me. Like


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: If you say, are you saying that people with schizophrenia are always doing poorly, they immediately go, no, I didn’t mean it. Offensively, I was paying you a compliment and then you try to like insert some education in there and all of a sudden it becomes about them. They didn’t mean anything by it. They were just trying to be complimentary. They were just trying to say a nice thing. Why would you insult somebody who was trying to be nice to you? And our feelings get left on the floor. Our feelings don’t matter. It


Michelle: Mhm.


Gabe: All becomes about the person who said the thing that bothered us. Nobody ever cares that it bothers us because it’s always, well, they didn’t mean anything by it.


Michelle: Yeah. Or then it’s like. So did you go to college? Yes.


Gabe: I didn’t go to college.


Michelle: Oh. Did you graduate college?


Gabe: Let’s not use that one. I


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: Didn’t, I didn’t I didn’t go to college. I don’t like that one. Use a different example, Michelle.


Michelle: But, but, but the thing is, I understand that. But a lot of people think, like, I could have never gone to college.


Gabe: No, no. I know exactly what you mean. And this is actually a wonderful example, because the reason that I didn’t go to college had very little to do with me living with bipolar disorder. The reason I didn’t go to college is because I come from a long line of people who didn’t go to college. My mom and dad didn’t go to college. My mom got pregnant in high school. My father, he dropped out, I think, in the in the fifth or sixth grade. Uh, my, my grandparents didn’t go to, like, college wasn’t really instilled in me. I was raised very stereotypically blue collar where it’s like, get a high school diploma, get a job. So. So college was never important to it. It again, it had very little to do with bipolar disorder. And but people think the reason I didn’t go is, oh, because you’re, you’re not as smart as the rest of us because of this illness. And I’m like, no, my dad’s a truck driver.


Michelle: So that’s why people assume you didn’t go to college. Because people often assume I didn’t go to college.


Gabe: Yeah. They blame it on the bipolar disorder before. Before they blame it on all the host of other examples that that I just gave.


Michelle: But yeah, but I got, I get the oh, you went to college, you graduated I go yes, yes.


Gabe: See. But I’m guilty of that too.


Michelle: It is just like there, like in shock that I went to college and graduated.


Gabe: Okay, but hang on, hang on. After talking to you for five minutes, finding out that you went to college actually does kind of shock me as well. And it has nothing to do with schizophrenia. It’s really your personality. Maybe. Maybe they’re insulting you for different reasons and you just haven’t picked up on it.


Michelle: Well, I do sometimes. I mean, it’s kind of like I do put myself down sometimes when I go like, well, well, I was an art major,


Gabe: Oh. [Laughter]


Michelle: But I did have a minor. I did do business. Biz comm minor, my biz comm minor, I did that, I did that.


Gabe: The only thing worse than an art degree is an English degree, and the only thing worse than an English degree is a philosophy degree.


Michelle: No, it’s a philosophy degree.


Gabe: I knew it. I think we owe each other a Coke.


Michelle: But the thing is, I could never do a philosophy degree because all they do is read and write. Just read books and write papers. I could never even do a philosophy degree that’s too hard for me.


Gabe: Okay. Now let me ask you this, Michelle, though. You just said that you can’t read and write, okay? I mean, okay, that’s not what Michelle said. I mean, you kind of insinuated it, but I think what you meant is that you do not enjoy reading and that you do not enjoy writing.


Michelle: Right.


Gabe: Do you think that has anything to do with your schizophrenia? Be honest.


Michelle: Oh, I think so, because once I start reading books, that’s when I’m like, oh la la la la, what am I? And I start just like, just like going off into another land. And then I start just going delusional, getting seeing hallucinations. And then I never finish what I’m, I don’t know, the last time I finished a book, honestly.


Gabe: So, you know, it’s fascinating because I have trouble reading books because not because of bipolar disorder, but because of medication. That’s an interesting thing to bring up as well, though I don’t really read books because I have trouble focusing for long periods of time and people are like, oh, well, Gabe doesn’t read because he has bipolar disorder. No, before I was medicated for bipolar disorder, I read books constantly. It’s actually the treatment for bipolar disorder that makes me not able to read books.


Michelle: Really?


Gabe: Now I want to make sure that I say, that’s a good trade, right? I no longer have demons chasing me. I’m no longer suicidal. I can I can sustain job, relationships, friendships, and I’ve achieved a lot more. So it is in fact a good trade. But it always bothers me that people are like, well, Gabe can’t read because of bipolar disorder. Nope. Gabe can’t read like long books, and Gabe has trouble focusing because of the treatment for bipolar disorder. It gets me all the time. It’s possible and I don’t know, I’m not you know, our listeners, your mileage may vary, but it’s certainly possible that some of these issues of, you know, like appearing unintelligent or not being able to string sentences together or whatever is a symptom of the treatment. And people are like, oh, well, it’s, you know, people with schizophrenia, they’re constantly doing it. And you know what the best example of that is? It’s the rocking back and forth.


Gabe: I want to make sure that we don’t lose this thread for a moment, because I do think that one of the reasons that people might think that we aren’t as intelligent as the rest of the population is because there’s actually things that are a side effect of our medication and not actually part of the disorder yet they’re considered part of the disorder, like for example, tardive dyskinesia. Everybody thinks that people with schizophrenia are constantly like rocking back and forth. They have tremors. Their, their, their, their tongues are darting in and out. And that has nothing to do with schizophrenia and everything to do with the treatment for schizophrenia. It’s a side effect of the medication, yet it’s inherently linked. Do you think that some of this misunderstanding, Michelle.


Michelle: I do because when you see somebody possibly rocking back and forth or just making weird movements, they’re like, what’s wrong with that person? There’s something wrong with them when really it’s just it’s the tardive dyskinesia. It happens. I mean, I’ll rock back and forth sometimes it’s just it’s just what it is. But they might think, oh, that person’s on drugs. Well, they’re not on drugs. It’s tardive dyskinesia. So, calm yourself, realize what it is. Educate yourself. So you could just not be so ignorant.


Gabe: But to a larger point, I just everybody understands that if you’re bald, it doesn’t mean that cancer made you lose your hair. Chemotherapy made you lose your hair. But there’s just many things when it comes to mental illness that they think it’s because of the disorder. For example, let’s let’s stay on this side effect thing, right? Imagine if one of the medications that you’re giving really slows down your mind, right. One of the side effects is that it just it makes you tired drowsy slow. And these are very common side effects. And you meet someone for the first time and you’re like, I’m sorry, I have bipolar disorder and I’m just not feeling very well. And you’re talking really slow and your mind is really muddled and you’re just you’re just not feeling well at all. And then that person is like, oh, I talked to somebody with bipolar disorder. And they were like, really slow and didn’t seem to understand what was going on. So they think that’s because of bipolar disorder, when in actuality it’s because of the treatment for bipolar disorder. I don’t think society understands that well at all.


Michelle: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My medication for schizophrenia. Before it, I had a much sharper, sharper, sharper mind. I could remember a lot more, but I also remembered things that weren’t true. Or I remembered things that I didn’t want to remember so vividly all the time. So I’d rather take the medicine and have my memory a little bit like, you know, dumbed down only because I don’t want to remember everything all the time that was so horrible, or make up fake memories that aren’t even true. I’d rather deal with that side effect because my life is better that way.


Gabe: I do want to say to all of the people listening, you know, the public is screwed too, right? I don’t like it when, when we face stigma. I don’t like to be discriminated against. I really, really don’t. But the the public just gets misinformation after misinformation after misinformation. For example, after every mass violence event that occurs in America, people with mental illness are immediately blamed. And then suddenly


Michelle: Absolutely.


Gabe: People who don’t understand mental illness have never known anybody with a mental illness. They’re like, well, we’re afraid of people with mental illness. Well, why wouldn’t they be political leaders, senators, presidents, I mean, people in power, people who are people who have been elected to give us information, have told us to be fearful of this. So why wouldn’t they be afraid of us now? I


Michelle: Exactly.


Gabe: Would like it if our leaders would do a better job. I would like it if the media would do a better job. I would like it if people would not be as trusting of leaders in the media when actually, you know, maybe, maybe Google something that would be nice, listen to people with the illness or maybe use some critical thinking skills. I’m not saying the people who believe this nonsense are completely off the hook, but I do kind of get it. I mean, they’re constantly bombarded with this misinformation, and some of the misinformation that they’re bombarded with is that people with mental illness aren’t as smart, and then they meet somebody who’s symptomatic. And again, I just I can’t say it more plainly. Michelle I have never talked to a sick person, mental illness or physical illness who came off intelligent to me because nobody is at their best when they’re sick. The problem is, is they’re like, oh, I met somebody with bipolar disorder who is in crisis. And, you know, he didn’t seem all that smart to me. Yeah. No shit.


Michelle: No shit. They’re in crisis. Yeah. I do rock back and forth quite often, but I say I can do an audiobook pretty okay, but it’s usually only if I’m traveling. I’ll listen to an audiobook. Like I was listening to the Britney Spears audiobook. That was that was good. And also, I have to say, the writing in that book, how she wrote that book. I know she had a ghostwriter with her, but some of that is just like when I was listening to that book, I thought to myself, if this book is written like this, I think I can write an autobiography as well. The way that book is written. Oh my, oh my.


Gabe: Hey, there is no doubt in my mind that you can write an autobiography about how much you hate people. I just I think that is definitely in your wheelhouse. Michelle you. You thought you couldn’t.


Michelle: I love people, Gabe. What are you talking about? I talk to people all the time. Sometimes I just can’t shut up.


Gabe: You love individual people. You hate people.


Michelle: Talk to everybody. Not on the subway, though. I don’t talk to people on the subway.


Gabe: Okay, but isn’t that a stereotype? You’ve just decided that everyone on the subway is not worth being your friend, and yet your entire city pretty much rides the subway. And I’d like to point out you’re on the subway, so that means somebody else thinks


Michelle: But that’s


Gabe: That you’re not worth being friends with because they met you on the subway. But I would bet you would say, oh,


Michelle: No.


Gabe: They don’t want to be my friend because they found out that I had schizophrenia. But it turns out it’s the subway thing. What are you doing?


Michelle: No, no, no, that is subway etiquette. That’s subway etiquette. Don’t talk to me. That is what it is. If you try to make a friend on the subway, it’s like, what are you doing? That is subway etiquette. You do not. You just don’t talk to people on this. You don’t.


Gabe: I think it’s super important that we point out that this is the Underground Railroad in New York, and not the subway sandwich shops.


Michelle: Yes. Every time you text me that time, I would always say I don’t have service. I’m in the subway. And you thought that I was always going into subway sandwich stops, and for some reason they had no service. But I was actually riding the subway.


Gabe: I thought you ate a lot at Subway.


Michelle: Yeah, I don’t know how you didn’t understand that, Gabe.


Gabe: I


Michelle: But no.


Gabe: I Don’t.


Michelle: When you ride the New York City subway.


Gabe: I thought it was odd that you called it the subway. I thought maybe you went to the same Subway over and over again. I’m from a small town where we called the McDonald’s the McDonald’s.


Michelle: You are not there to make friends. You are not loud, you don’t talk to everybody. You stay quiet. You stay quiet on the subway. You don’t. You don’t just you just don’t chit chat on the subway with strangers unless you’re just stuck in the middle of there and everyone’s getting annoyed. And then the guy comes on the loudspeaker and he sounds like. And then everyone’s like, what is he saying? What is he saying? Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, mama.


Gabe: But.


Michelle: And then that’s the only time you’ll be like to another person. Like, what are they talking about? Otherwise you’re not making friends on the subway.


Gabe: Okay, but hang on. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. You’ve just said it’s subway etiquette, right? Well, maybe people think that it’s mental illness etiquette to assume that you’re suffering or doing poorly or to expect less of you. Maybe society has adopted this etiquette to assume that people with mental illness are only doing poorly, and in some ways that might be a protective factor. Because now hang on a second. Let me finish. Could you imagine if we switched it to where they assumed that every single person with mental illness was doing well, because then somebody would say, oh my God, I’m hallucinating and I’m seeing stuff, and we’d be like, oh, of course you must have a really hit podcast like that. That must be really awesome. You must live alone in New York City with your spouse. You probably have a dog. Oh, this is awesome. And the person is like, well, what? What the hell, man? I was asking for help and they’re like, that’s awesome. I’m so glad you own your own home and then just walks away. So it could it be that some of these stereotypes actually work out for people who aren’t us?


Michelle: On the subway?


Gabe: No, just in general.


Michelle: I guess so, well, I mean, it’s not always I mean, you know, it happens. I did meet one guy that modeled for me on the subway.


Gabe: I love how we’re having separate


Michelle: Just saying.


Gabe: Conversations on our own podcast. Listen, because you don’t like stereotypes that people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or serious and persistent mental illness are less intelligent than the rest of the population. In fact, that makes you angry, doesn’t it?


Michelle: Just a little bit because people think I’m dumb, but I’m not dumb. I’m very intelligent. I did decent on my SATs. Decent.


Gabe: I want to stay on this for a minute. No, just hang on. Is it possible that that you and I, we’re were in long term recovery. We’re living well with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Maybe it is actually a good thing that people in general see a bipolar or a schizophrenia diagnosis as something to be concerned about. I mean, think about it outside of ourselves for a moment. If somebody says, hey, I have bipolar disorder and people think, oh my God, you must have a number one rated podcast and live in a nice house and live in New York City and live alone and make good money and own a clothing line and, and be married. And like, maybe that would be bad. Like maybe we want them to be concerned for us.


Michelle: Do we want people to be concerned for us? I think we just just want equality. I think we want health care. I think we want just government acknowledging that severe and persistent mental illness actually does exist. So we need health care. I think we need the the health care reform.


Gabe: Do we need health care? Michelle, you haven’t touched on that yet and I’m curious about that.


Michelle: You know what I mean? You know the reform. I think we need to stop blaming people with mental illness on all the bad things that keep happening. I think we actually need to do something. I don’t know what it is, but how about we actually make some changes in some legislation? Let’s see. Maybe I am done. Gabe, I keep pronouncing things wrong.


Gabe: [Laughter]


Michelle: Maybe I am dumb.


Gabe: But maybe it’s mispronouncing all these words over and over again that make people ask you if you’re unintelligent, not the fact that you have schizophrenia. Maybe you are stereotyping people, insulting you. You’ve decided that they’re insulting you because you have schizophrenia, when in actuality they’re just insulting you.


Michelle: No no. No.


Gabe: Are you the one perpetuating the stereotype?


Michelle: I watch Jeopardy!, Gabe. You know that I watch. I watch Jeopardy! And sometimes I get it right. Some answers.


Gabe: Sometimes?


Michelle: Sometimes. Sometimes I get the Final Jeopardy! question right. I’ve gotten the Final Jeopardy! Question right when all three contestants get it wrong. I’ve gotten it right.


Gabe: Really? All three contestants got it wrong, but Michelle Hammer got it right?


Michelle: I that’s happened, Gabe.


Gabe: That’s never happened.


Michelle: That’s happened.


Gabe: That’s never happened.


Michelle: Yes it has. Yes.


Gabe: Never happened. That’s never happened.


Michelle: It has,


Gabe: Happened, never


Michelle: Yes


Gabe: Happened.


Michelle: It has.


Gabe: How do you feel about them Mayim Bialik?


Michelle: They didn’t fire her. She left.


Gabe: Nah,


Michelle: They fired her?


Gabe: They fired her.


Michelle: Why would they fire her?


Gabe: I because


Michelle: Now


Gabe: She has schizophrenia.


Michelle: That makes me mad. I like her. Me and her have Ashkenazi pride.


Gabe: So. Wait. What?


Michelle: Me and her. We’re both Ashkenazi.


Gabe: So the only reason that you like her is because you share Jewish heritage?


Michelle: And because she’s Blossom.


Gabe: I mean, I, I happen to like her too, because she’s Blossom and she and I do not share Jewish heritage. But the only two reasons that you’ve given so far for liking her are very stereotypical. You haven’t actually said that she’s a good host of Jeopardy! You’ve


Michelle: She


Gabe: Just


Michelle: Is


Gabe: Based


Michelle: A good host


Gabe: Your like


Michelle: Of Jeopardy!


Gabe: Of her on all these stereotypes.


Michelle: Well,


Gabe: Isn’t that


Michelle: I


Gabe: What


Michelle: Mean,


Gabe: You’re


Michelle: Why


Gabe: Fighting


Michelle: You.


Gabe: Against?


Michelle: What? Dude, no. Okay, listen, blossom was a great show. Joey Lawrence. Whoa. You


Gabe: Whoa!


Michelle: Know, it was big fan of that. Whoa! Right. So she’s on that great show, then she’s on that nerd show. I didn’t like that show. Whatever it was. You know, I’m not


Gabe: The


Michelle: Into


Gabe: Big


Michelle: That.


Gabe: Bang Theory is a great show.


Michelle: It wasn’t really my thing. Whatever. She played a weird character on that wasn’t into it. But anyway. She’s an Ashkenazi. She’s on TikTok all the time. She teaches Yiddish words. It’s hilarious to me at least. And I like her. She’s good.


Gabe: But


Michelle: I like


Gabe: Is


Michelle: Her.


Gabe: She a good host of Jeopardy!


Michelle: Yeah, because


Gabe: You


Michelle: She’s


Gabe: Have yet


Michelle: Smart.


Gabe: To say


Michelle: She


Gabe: That.


Michelle: Has she has like she has like she has a degree in like, like brain, like something smart. I don’t even know. Maybe. See, I’m so dumb. I don’t even know what she has a degree in. It’s something brain chemistry, something or other really smart stuff. She’s


Gabe: Did you


Michelle: A


Gabe: Say


Michelle: Genius,


Gabe: Chemistry?


Michelle: So I can’t even speak. Maybe. Gabe, I am dumb. Apparently I’m


Gabe: No,


Michelle: Not


Gabe: No.


Michelle: As smart as Mayim Bialik.


Gabe: Okay. Now we


Michelle: Or


Gabe: Did.


Michelle: Alex Trebek


Gabe: Right. So therefore they’re there. It’s not schizophrenia. Maybe people are being stereotypically like mean to you because of, again, other reasons.


Michelle: I’m just saying. I get a lot of comments that I’m absolutely crazy. Things like that.


Gabe: But aren’t you?


Michelle: Well.


Gabe: You are a little bit.


Michelle: Well.


Gabe: Yard.


Michelle: Well,


Gabe: You’re


Michelle: Then


Gabe: A little


Michelle: Why do


Gabe: Bit.


Michelle: People keep asking? Why do people keep asking me questions if they think I’m so crazy? They think I have knowledge somewhere, don’t you think?


Gabe: I.


Michelle: They keep asking me questions over and over and over and over and over again. The same questions I get asked the same questions all the time, and I sometimes reply, just watch the other videos. Like if you watch the video previous to this video, you wouldn’t be asking me that question. See, other people can be dumb too.


Gabe: Wabbit. Aren’t people on your on your feed? Aren’t they also people living with managing schizophrenia and other mental health issues?


Michelle: Sometimes. Sometimes, but a lot of times it’s a lot of caregivers.


Gabe: I’m not trying to get far afield here, but don’t you personally, Michelle and


Michelle: Mm.


Gabe: I do too. I don’t, I don’t know, I’m trying to throw Michelle under the bus. Don’t you get annoyed and have stereotypes that all caregivers are? Are, you know, all family members, caregivers, people who love people with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia that they’re just a little over involved.


Michelle: They’re always over involved because they always want to. They’re a husband, wife, son, brother, uncle, grandfather, grandmother, daughter, cousin, boyfriend, husband. They all want them to get better. How can they get better? How do I help them take their medicine? What do I do during a schizophrenia episode? How do I treat them this way? What do I do during this happens? They all want them to get better and they don’t know how to do it. And they always ask me, well, I’m not, I’m I always say I am not a doctor, I am just schizophrenic. This is my perspective and I don’t really know how you can get your loved one to take their medicine. If they don’t want to take it, maybe try new medicine if they don’t like their medicine. Maybe it’s not the meds that they like. There’s many meds. I throw a lot of medicine in the garbage because I hated it. I just tried other medication, got other doctors. They might not like their doctor. They might not like their medication. Try a new one.


Gabe: But my point is, is that you’re painting all family members, caregivers, people who love people with mental illness with the identical brush because the majority of them that you run into behave in this way. So isn’t it possible that the person who looks at you as a person with schizophrenia and thinks to themselves, oh, you, you must live at home or you have less intelligence, etc.? All of the people with schizophrenia they’re running into behave in that one way, and now they are doing the same thing that you are doing, just in a different direction.


Michelle: Well, no, not everyone says that to me. A lot of people tell me that I’m helping them a lot, and a lot of people have said from watching your videos, I noticed that when my loved one is having an episode, I just let them do it and it’s fine. We’re just watching TV. I let them just have their episode, and I learned from you that that’s just fine. And I’m like, that’s great, but it’s the million questions. How do I get my loved one to take their medicine?


Gabe: All right, look, that’s your job. I don’t know why you get mad that people are asking questions.


Michelle: Do what I do with my dog. Do it. Do what I do with my dog and you put some peanut butter on it, you know what I mean? And then the dog eats it.


Gabe: You know, the other day you told me that you wanted a million followers on social media, but yet you have, what, 150,000 followers on social media? And you’re mad that you get this many questions. You recognize if you have more followers,


Michelle: Uh,


Gabe: You’re going to get more


Michelle: No,


Gabe: Questions.


Michelle: I am not. I am not mad. I am not mad. There is no mad. There’s no mad. It’s just it’s also I get asked these questions, but I have to say that I have no idea what these answers are. I don’t know, how do you get your


Gabe: Just because you don’t


Michelle: I


Gabe: Know.


Michelle: Don’t.


Gabe: Why are you mad? They’re asking


Michelle: Some


Gabe: You.


Michelle: Answers. Some questions are impossible to answer. I am not the all-knowing of everything in the world. That doesn’t make me stupid. It makes me not a genius.


Gabe: Ah, okay. So hang on, hang on now, now we’re now we’re getting to the meat of it. Michelle. So you’re saying that when someone asks you a question and you’re like, hey, look, I don’t know the answer to that. You think they think you don’t know the answer because you’re less than because of schizophrenia, because of severe and persistent mental illness, etc. when in actuality you don’t know the answer because you’re not all knowing. Because again, you’re not a doctor, etc. and you feel that they’re looking down on you because you don’t know, and that bothers you because you’re just out there genuinely trying to help.


Michelle: Well, they’re like, how can my loved one act like you? I don’t know. Why do you want them to act like me? Like me?


Gabe: Yeah.


Michelle: You want


Gabe: No,


Michelle: People


Gabe: Nobody


Michelle: Are wanting


Gabe: Should


Michelle: To


Gabe: Want


Michelle: Act


Gabe: That.


Michelle: Like me? Are you serious? You want your loved one to act like I am okay? Especially when these videos are, like, less than a minute. Okay, that’s less than a minute of me acting in that video. You want them? What about, like, the rest of the day? I’m not so sure you want your loved one to act just like I do, but. But okay, I get it. But they’re like, but you take your medicine. But I’m like, but I tried like 15, 20 different. I tried bazillions of medicines, bazillions of combinations. It’s not an easy time, you know, and then people are like, well, in my country, we can’t just send them to the psych ward. It’s a whole different thing. They don’t have to go. And then they trick the people in the hospital and say that they’re fine. What am I supposed to say? What answer are these people looking for? Because I can’t do anything. So I feel like I can’t help you because I can’t. I don’t control the world.


Gabe: But I don’t understand why you think that’s a stereotype.


Michelle: I’m


Gabe: In


Michelle: Not saying


Gabe: Actuality,


Michelle: It’s


Gabe: I


Michelle: A


Gabe: Think


Michelle: Stereotype.


Gabe: You’re looking at this all wrong. Michelle. They’re actually looking at you as an expert. They’re looking at you as somebody to be revered. And that is why they are asking you. They’re showing you a


Michelle: Oh,


Gabe: Great


Michelle: I’m an


Gabe: Deal


Michelle: Expert.


Gabe: Of respect by just asking you the question. If they thought that you were a schizophrenic idiot that didn’t know anything, they wouldn’t bother to ask. So you actually think that they’re looking down on you, when in actuality


Michelle: Oh,


Gabe: They’re


Michelle: They think


Gabe: Showing


Michelle: I’m


Gabe: You


Michelle: A genius.


Gabe: A great deal


Michelle: Gabe


Gabe: Of respect?


Michelle: I’m a genius. Jane. Gabe just called me a genius. Gabe just called me a genius.


Gabe: No, Gabe


Michelle: Gabe


Gabe: Said. They think


Michelle: Thinks


Gabe: You’re


Michelle: I’m


Gabe: A genius.


Michelle: An expert. Gabe thinks I’m an expert.


Gabe: Oh, no. I do think you’re an expert.


Michelle: I think


Gabe: And


Michelle: You’re


Gabe: So


Michelle: An expert, Gabe.


Gabe: Do they? Why?


Michelle: You’re


Gabe: Are


Michelle: An


Gabe: You


Michelle: Expert.


Gabe: Upset that they consider you a subject matter expert?


Michelle: No, I’m just saying that I don’t know what to say.


Gabe: But this whole show is about how backhanded compliments and people look down on you because you have schizophrenia and you’re your biggest example yet in this episode is about how they look at you and revere you enough to ask you a question to save the life of somebody they love. They actually see you as somebody who is in a position to help someone they love, and you’re like, I hate them for it.


Michelle: I don’t hate them. That’s not even what I was trying to get at.


Gabe: Okay.


Michelle: I don’t even


Gabe: What


Michelle: Know


Gabe: Are you


Michelle: How


Gabe: Trying


Michelle: We


Gabe: To get


Michelle: Got


Gabe: At?


Michelle: Into this.


Gabe: What are you trying to get at? Agree to disagree.


Michelle: Uh, no, because I’ve been right. See, Lisa


Gabe: Agree to


Michelle: Said


Gabe: Disagree.


Michelle: In the chat that I’ve been, so shut up.


Gabe: I agree to disagree.


Michelle: Lisa agrees with me.


Gabe: I agree to disagree. I don’t even know who Lisa is.


Michelle: Uh, no. Agree to disagree. Disagree is the dumbest phrase there ever was. Agree to disagree. No,


Gabe: See,


Michelle: No,


Gabe: I agree


Michelle: That is


Gabe: With


Michelle: Dumb.


Gabe: That because you never get anywhere, okay? You never you never actually reach. Agree to disagree means we’re just going to stop talking about it.


Michelle: Yeah.


Gabe: That’s all it means,


Michelle: It


Gabe: Right?


Michelle: Just means we. It means we hate each other so much; we’re not even going to talk anymore. That’s a good I disagree, I really mean.


Gabe: Okay, then. Michelle.


Michelle: Blah blah blah blah


Gabe: This


Michelle: Blah blah blah blah.


Gabe: Is.


Michelle: The


Gabe: This


Michelle: Titanic


Gabe: Is awkward.


Michelle: Sank. No it didn’t. It was a different boat. Remember that conspiracy?


Gabe: We should agree to disagree.


Michelle: You ever heard about that conspiracy? That Titanic was a conspiracy? It was. It was supposed to. There was a reason why it sank. And then there happened to be the other boat, right. And over there that was filled with blankets. So it sunk on purpose. It was a whole bunch of nonsense. You ever saw that conspiracy? Everything is a stupid conspiracy.


Gabe: What?


Michelle: You never heard about the Titanic conspiracies?


Supporter Appreciation


Michelle: We are so thankful to all the people who went to BSP.show/support and made it possible to do season four. We raised over $5,000 and we just can’t thank them enough. As promised, here’s the list and I’ll try to do my best to pronounce all the names correctly: Bonnie Landini, Jeff and Sue Hammer, Frances D. Thayer, Leigh Harris, Ross Milne, Gregory Zarian, Ariella “Ari” Kadosh, Kathleen McKeon, Judene Shelley, Elmer Earley, Carolynn Ponzoha, Dr. John Grohol, John Humphrey, Sara Danner, Lisa Kiner, and Marilyn Knight. 


Michelle: We’re back and we don’t know why.


Gabe: Maybe I missed the note, but. But I thought this episode was about people think that. People think people with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are less intelligent than the rest of the population. So far we’ve covered. Mayim Bialik, Jeopardy! You’re mad at the subway? For some reason, we haven’t had a rant about how much you dislike your mother, so I think that’s real growth for you. But what we haven’t actually covered was the topic.


Michelle: Maybe that’s the problem.


Gabe: Explain.


Michelle: We can’t stay on topic.


Gabe: Do you think that maybe people think that you’re less intelligent because you can’t stay on topic?


Michelle: Perhaps because that’s a big problem that I have.


Gabe: Now. I asked this for a reason in my second wife, who is Lisa? Ironically, uh, she used to think that I was a moron. And the reason that she thought I was a moron is two reasons. Sincerely. Two reasons. One word salad. Right. I would have racing thoughts and I would say stuff like, you know, pizza Grover diet microphone Bob because I’d have all these thoughts running through my head, and I could only grab like a word from each sentence and it would just come out. Word salad. Right. So one she’s like, okay, well that’s nonsensical. He’s got to be an idiot, right? And number two, I couldn’t really stay on topic or on track. So Lisa would say, hey, I saw in the news today that that such and such happened in the world. And I would say, oh my God, Shiny feather. And she’s like, oh, okay. Well, he keeps changing the subject whenever I talk about anything even remotely interesting or intellectual, so it’s probably because he doesn’t understand it, when in actuality it just was because shiny things are, in my view, right when I,


Michelle: You


Gabe: When I,


Michelle: Know.


Gabe: When I started to get, you know, medicated well, therapy, etc., suddenly I would say things like, you know, hey, I, I do know smart things. And it’s really sad that I can’t think of a smart thing that I know, but I know smart things. And then she didn’t think I was an idiot and married me. And then we got a divorce. So it didn’t work out well for her. But the point is, is that she no longer thinks I’m a moron because I’m under better care. Do you think that people are used to people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder who may be in crisis, and that they don’t realize that people with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia who quote unquote, sound intelligent, it’s just because they’re not symptomatic. And, well, frankly, people who aren’t symptomatic, we don’t realize have serious and persistent mental illness. We just think they’re Bob.


Michelle: Maybe.


Gabe: That’s it. That’s all you got? Maybe?


Michelle: I have deemed myself sometimes the queen of tangents.


Gabe: The queen of tangents.


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: Explain.


Michelle: We’re talking about one thing, and then I just start talking about another thing and then another thing, and then I go, what were we talking about?


Gabe: I’ve never noticed that about you.


Michelle: Are you joking?


Gabe: Oh, God. Yes. Yes. You know who really understands that? You’re the queen of tangents?


Michelle: Lisa.


Gabe: Lisa because she edits all those tangents together. And you sound so freaking smart. Because here’s the thing you are freaking smart. I want to make sure that the audience does know how intelligent Michelle is, but I’m just I’m just sincerely, sincerely, can you understand that you’re frustrating to deal with and that maybe people get frustrated with you for actions you’re actually taking, and not because of schizophrenia.


Michelle: Maybe. Maybe.


Gabe: I’m sorry. Say that louder


Michelle: Maybe.


Gabe: For the people in the back. Now.


Michelle: Maybe.


Gabe: I don’t think everybody heard that. Can you say that louder for people in the back?


Michelle: With.


Gabe: I’m sorry. It sounds


Michelle: Navy.


Gabe: Like you’re saying. Maybe, but I’m not sure.


Michelle: Bap bap


Gabe: Did you just say?


Michelle: Bap bap bap bap bap bap.


Gabe: Those aren’t words, Michelle.


Michelle: I have Dr Pepper. This is Dr Pepper. Gabe. How do you feel about that?


Gabe: Poorly.


Michelle: It’s not Diet Coke.


Gabe: At least it’s diet. I love how you’re changing the subject. Now is that a tangent or are you using your intelligence to try to get off the hot seat?


Michelle: My seat is. Cool.


Gabe: That’s, that’s not even good.


Michelle: Better than what you think.


Gabe: No.


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: Now. Now


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: You’re just repeating the opposite of whatever


Michelle: I


Gabe: I


Michelle: Don’t


Gabe: Say.


Michelle: Even know what you’re talking about. I don’t even know what we’re talking about anymore. You’re talking about tangents.


Gabe: No. You were talking about


Michelle: Do


Gabe: Tangents.


Michelle: You know? Do you know the Pythagorean theorem?


Gabe: Of course not.


Michelle: You don’t know the Pythagorean theorem?


Gabe: No, they must have been a band. After. After. Remember, you and I have, like, a ten-year age difference.


Michelle: Are you serious right now?


Gabe: I love the look on your face. Didn’t they have that hit? I want to get up on your buttercup.


Michelle: Oh my God, you’re so stupid.


Gabe: Nah, it’s a mathematical theorem. Come on, give me some credit here. Just because I don’t understand it doesn’t mean I haven’t heard of it. And. But I sincerely though you weren’t sure. Right. You can’t tell if I’m. If I’m diffusing the situation with humor, if I’m just trying to be funny on a podcast, if it’s because I have bipolar disorder, if it’s because I went to public school, any of these things could be it, right? Or maybe I’m really serious. Maybe I think it’s an actual band and you don’t know. I’m just saying you honestly believe that a lot of times when people dismiss you, it’s because of the schizophrenia. Why doesn’t that hurt you to put everything in the schizophrenia basket? Maybe they’re insulting you for a completely different reason. Isn’t it kind of important for you to understand that?


Michelle: Just dismissing me just because of my personality.


Gabe: That is one possibility.


Michelle: It’s possible. It’s possible. Maybe I’m just acting. Just like just being me. Just doing my own thing. And they’re like, I don’t really like this girl. She’s a bit too much for me. You know what? I’m not everyone’s cup of tea, so whatever. Don’t want. Don’t hang out with me. It’s fine if you don’t like me. Bye. That’s what I say. You don’t like me. Bye bye. I got enough friends.


Gabe: But you don’t really feel that way. You’re just posturing for the show. It does honestly hurt your feelings legitimately.


Michelle: Well, yeah. My friend just got married and invited a bunch of friends that I know, and I didn’t get an invite, but that’s okay.


Gabe: Okay, but why do you think you didn’t get invited?


Michelle: Well, we stopped talking for a while. And stopped hanging out. But the thing was really, I hurt my knee, and nobody hit me up to go to tournaments anymore. I mean, nobody hit me up at all. Said, how was your knee? Thought they cared about me. Guess they


Gabe: Wait


Michelle: Didn’t.


Gabe: A minute. Are you. Are you backhanding a lacrosse story into this show?


Michelle: Kind of.


Gabe: Why? Why do you do that? Not everything can be lacrosse Michelle.


Michelle: [Laughter] Whatever. It’s true though.


Gabe: See how intelligent she is. The rule for this year was no lacrosse and she figured it out. She figured out how to get it in.


Michelle: Whatever. That wedding was probably the most boring wedding in the world.


Gabe: Now you’re insulting the wedding that you wanted to go to. Wasn’t this a blessing in disguise that you didn’t get an invite?


Michelle: I wanted to be invited. I wanted an invite.


Gabe: Why? So you could insult them and not go. Because that’s kind of a mean thing to do.


Michelle: You know, because if you’re gonna invite those people, if you’re gonna invite those people, why did I not get an invite?


Gabe: I mean, I can think of some reasons.


Michelle: Oh shut up Gabe.


Gabe: Every wedding that you have ever gone to has ended in divorce.


Michelle: No, not every wedding. Just that one.


Gabe: And why did you go to that wedding?


Michelle: I thought it would be a shit show.


Gabe: And was it?


Michelle: You are right. Was it was it really was. It was, it was, it was interesting. Oh, but I feel bad now. I feel bad now. Oh, well.


Gabe: Here. Here’s a here’s the thing that I want to talk about. Michelle I want to segue before we run out of time because you are right. A lot of people look down on us and assume things about us because we have bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and it is nerve wracking, you know, whether it’s the backhanded compliments, whether it’s the assumption that we’re doing certain things just based on a diagnosis, whether it’s just people assuming they know things about our life because they know something about our illness. But when we talk about people looking down on our intelligence, one of the things that always pops in my brain is, but everybody thinks that all geniuses have mental illness. You ever notice that? Oh, a touch of madness. Oh, a spark of insanity. Oh, geniuses are often mentally ill. It’s a romantic trope in our society. But yet when people meet me, they think I must be an idiot. When people meet you, they think you must be an idiot.  I don’t understand how we exist in this world where all the geniuses have this spark of insanity and mental illness is what leads to genius. And also, all people with mental illness are dumb, and you should avoid them at all costs. And we’re probably violent. How do those things coexist?


Michelle: I have no idea. It makes absolutely no sense. It it. I don’t even know what all geniuses are mentally ill was. Was Einstein mentally ill? Ashkenazi pride? Was Einstein mentally ill?


Gabe: I people say that he was, you know, that picture of him sticking out his tongue with the fuzzy hair that that


Michelle: Yeah.


Gabe: Was not his personality. But notice that is the picture that everybody shares everywhere. Always. The man was nothing like that. He was actually kind of a prick from it. From everything that you read about him, he was just he was he was really a very disagreeable, kind of egotistical asshole. But yet


Michelle: Ashkenazi pride.


Gabe: Everybody sees that old picture of him with his tongue sticking out with the hair going every which direction. He’s like, ah, he he’s unique, he’s interesting. And that that spark of madness rises to the top. It the man was just a genius. Hard stop. You know what I mean? He didn’t have a spark of insanity. He wasn’t mentally ill. But remember, the picture that is always shared is the one off that buys into the stereotype that he was. He was, I don’t know, mad.


Michelle: Mad.


Gabe: Right? Why don’t they just have a picture of him when he was, like 30 years old or 35 years old, like in a suit with a tweed jacket, like just, you know, yelling at somebody. That picture is out there. Why is that not the one that everybody hangs on their wall?


Michelle: Well, when did he come to America? At what age?


Gabe: I don’t know.


Michelle: Because he had to flee. He fled Germany? Yes. So I don’t know if those pictures exist.


Gabe: I don’t know how old he is in the picture, but the picture I’m referencing in my own mind. He’s definitely not the old man that we have come to know. He


Michelle: Right


Gabe: He is a


Michelle: With


Gabe: Much


Michelle: Those


Gabe: Younger


Michelle: Pictures.


Gabe: Man


Michelle: Those


Gabe: And


Michelle: Pictures


Gabe: He looks


Michelle: May,


Gabe: Angry


Michelle: May


Gabe: And


Michelle: Be lost.


Gabe: He’s pointing his finger at somebody and he’s yelling at somebody. These pictures are out there. Just Google them. My point is, is that whenever you say Albert Einstein, everybody immediately pictures the older gentleman with the hair sticking out in every direction and him sticking out his tongue. That’s.


Michelle: Well, don’t we have his brain? Don’t we have his brain or something? You know?


Gabe: Yes, we we have. We have dissected his brain. But but, Michelle. Michelle, stay on.


Michelle: Yes.


Gabe: Do not tangent. Stay on focus.


Michelle: Okay, so, Gabe, I just googled it. Einstein came here and he was like, 54 years old when he fled Germany because of Nazis. So any nice pictures that he had of himself in a nice little suit or anything got left in Germany. Probably because he probably couldn’t pack that in his suitcase when he came over on a boat. And then he probably got ruined


Gabe: Listen,


Michelle: By the Nazis.


Gabe: I’m apparently shitty at guessing people’s ages. The point that I’m making is that Einstein wasn’t this. He wasn’t this fun loving man. He was a very serious, very. He just he. The point that I’m making is you asked if people saw Einstein as this tortured, mentally ill genius. And yes, look at the picture that we use to show this man. This man fled Nazi Germany. He was a genius. He worked on, on these very high level physics projects. I mean, he was the this man was not some spunky, fun guy. That’s just not his personality.


Michelle: Because


Gabe: It’s not


Michelle: He


Gabe: Designed


Michelle: Ran


Gabe: To


Michelle: From


Gabe: Insult


Michelle: The Nazis.


Gabe: Him. It’s just, why do we use this picture?  It’s like you always say about my headshot. You’re like, Gabe, your headshot is stupid. You’re never that serious, and you never wear a suit. Why is that? Your headshot? And I’m like, yeah, because it’s supposed to be. And you’re like, well, mine’s not. And notice that your headshot actually represents you. You know, you’re you’re wearing your shirt, you’re fun. You got your hands up, you sometimes you have a hat on. It’s more representative of your personality. I my point is, Michelle you asked if people think of Einstein because he’s a genius as having a mental illness. And yeah, they kind of do. They think he’s a little bit crazy and give him that little quote unquote spark of madness to explain his genius, when in actuality he’s not mentally ill at all.


Michelle: John Nash doesn’t really help the case either.


Gabe: What John Nash do. Explain to the audience who John Nash is.


Michelle: John Nash has schizophrenia, but he was also a genius.


Gabe: Doesn’t he also have a beautiful mind?


Michelle: Yeah, he was in that movie A Beautiful Mind. And, I don’t know his whole story. I thought the movie was boring, but I don’t know what he did. What did he do that was so smart? I don’t even know. What did he do?


Gabe: Well, he won a Nobel Prize.


Michelle: Oh, I want a Nobel Prize. What about. That’s great mathematics


Gabe: You win a Nobel Prize?


Michelle: And stuff. I think he was good at mathematics, but if you watch that movie, I do remember some of it. He was a whole conspiracy theorist, and he thought people were after him.


Gabe: Yeah, because he had untreated schizophrenia. He was extraordinarily paranoid.


Michelle: He didn’t. Even his roommate in college was not a real person. It was a hallucination the whole time.


Gabe: Yes. Nobody is saying that if you are a genius, you can’t be mentally ill. And nobody is saying that if you have schizophrenia, you can’t be stupid. But we are saying that to assume that all people with mental illness are stupid or all geniuses are mentally ill is wrong. I think the point that you’re driving at is that you want people to evaluate people on more than just, hey, we heard your diagnosis and now we assume the following things about you.


Michelle: Mhm. Mhm mhm mhm mhm.


Gabe: Yeah, yeah, because it’s a podcast. We just couldn’t say that right away. We had to take you through this journey. But yeah,


Michelle: It


Gabe: That’s really


Michelle: Was


Gabe: The


Michelle: A


Gabe: Point.


Michelle: Journey. We went on about 12 tangents, but I think we got to the point here.


Gabe: Well, we don’t know how many tangents we went on because Lisa hasn’t edited the show and decided which tangents were funny or not. Maybe we only went on three tangents.


Michelle: But in actuality we went on about 15.


Gabe: Yeah, yeah, if I’m keeping track correctly, we went on 275.


Michelle: 275. Some were about Dr Pepper, some were about Jeopardy!, some were about lacrosse, some were about Instagram DMs. And, um, I don’t, uh, some are about, um, computers.


Gabe: See, this is. This is how intelligent Michelle is. She is now making sure that those tangents make it into the podcast in order to pay off this part right here. And notice all of the tangents


Michelle: Heh.


Gabe: That Michelle just named were her tangents that she felt were funny.


Michelle: Heh heh. I’m a genius. I’m a genius.


Gabe: I mean, maybe you have a mental illness, so you’ve got to be.


Michelle: Just call me genius. Tell me. Darling. Genius.


Gabe: And thanks everybody for tuning in. And listen, if you want more episodes of A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast, more seasons, more Gabe, more Michelle, more of whatever it is that we do, just hit up our link, BSP.show/support, and you can support the podcast. And there’s all kinds of cool stuff, including stuff that Michelle made with her own tiny little schizophrenic hands.


Michelle: That’s right. My hands are tiny. They’re actually huge. But that’s okay.


Gabe: Hey, listen, you told me that you slaved and you got blisters, and it was super difficult. You just. I remember you crying and just like, why do I have to do this? And I was like, for the people, Michelle.


Michelle: If you insist, Gabe. I don’t cry like you. I’m not a little baby. But that sure is fine. Whatever you want to say. You’re the one who’s a baby.


Gabe: Listen, crying is healthy. My name is Gabe Howard and I am the author of “Mental Illness Is an Asshole and Other Observations,” which you can get wherever they sell books. But if you want a signed copy with free show swag, just hit me up at gabehoward.com.


Michelle: And I’m Michelle Hammer. You can find me at Schizophrenic.NYC to find all of my clothing and accessories. And I just launched a new home and living line at Home.Schizophrenic.NYC. Definitely check that out.


Gabe: All right. Wherever you downloaded this podcast, please follow or subscribe because you don’t want to miss a thing and it is absolutely free. We need a huge favor. Michelle and I don’t have an advertising budget, so we’re counting on you. Please share the show with everyone you know. Share it in a support group, share it on social media. Hell, send somebody a text because sharing the show with the people you know is how we’re going to grow. We will see everybody next time on A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast.


Michelle: Genius.


Announcer: You’ve been listening to A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast. Previous episodes can be found on your favorite podcast player or by visiting 

ThisEmotionalLife.org/BSP. Have comments or show ideas? Hit up the show at BSP@ThisEmotionalLife.org. Gabe and Michelle are not medical professionals. This podcast is not a substitute for medical advice and is for entertainment purposes only. If you or a loved one needs help, please call, text or chat the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline. That’s 988. Thank you for listening.



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